Rendered at 04:31:16 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Cloudflare Workers.
mainecoder 1 days ago [-]
Anyone commenting please watch the video first. Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder? perhaps it is, any thoughts from a person with criminal law experience? We clearly see the car turning, going out of its way towards the person. Additionally, a pursuit on foot would have been possible the car qualifies as a deadly weapon in this case I think.
Terr_ 1 days ago [-]
> criminal law experience
So IANAL, let alone a trial-lawyer, but I did spend weeks/days with 11 other people listening/deliberating after a cop-adjacent defendant non-fatally shot somebody.
> Attempted Second-degree Murder?
Hold up, what this means varies by state: Illinois law says that second-degree still requires an intent to kill [0], and I think the prosecution may have a hard time proving beyond reasonable doubt that the driver intended to turn the victim into road-splatter.
In contrast, the next step down of (attempted?) "Involuntary Manslaughter and Reckless Homicide" seems much easier to prove, and explicitly draws in a surprising number of vehicle-related details.
"intent" is not what you're representing. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand using lethal force will result in death.
A reasonable person would expect severe injury or death from running somebody over, and that is enough to satisfy 'intent.'
"Caaarl!! THAT KILLS PEOPLE!" "How was I supposed to know stabbing him 37 times in the chest would do that?"
Terr_ 2 hours ago [-]
Did you read the link with the law? You are begging the question that the driver's direct intent was to run the victim over. (Not recklessness, idiocy, target fixation, etc.)
It's quite possible, but if you're going to prosecute someone in a court case, you've got to have a lot more than just "it fits the pattern for these assholes."
ShowalkKama 1 days ago [-]
>Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder?
would you?
I would certainly consider him guilty, if not of exactly that crime.
lux-lux-lux 1 days ago [-]
> Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder?
No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
mandeepj 1 days ago [-]
> No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
Possible! Many police officers have gone to jail for murdering people.
FireBeyond 1 days ago [-]
Not to mention the "re-positioning" of the victim's vehicle to shore up ICE's narrative.
Don't worry though, just like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50090246 someone will be along to say "mistakes are inevitable, but we need to enforce immigration law, and this is an acceptable price, though not ideal".
soganess 1 days ago [-]
Jaw dropping. I swear this all just a 4D psyop to get folks nostalgic for the halcyon days of garden-variety police brutality. Such a simpler time.
It wasn't even the guy they had a "warrant" for.
verdverm 1 days ago [-]
I also thought ICE lacks authority to make traffic stops
hn_acker 1 days ago [-]
The original title is:
> ICE’s Lies About A Man Officer Ran Over Undone By Footage Captured By Nearby CCTV Camera
So IANAL, let alone a trial-lawyer, but I did spend weeks/days with 11 other people listening/deliberating after a cop-adjacent defendant non-fatally shot somebody.
> Attempted Second-degree Murder?
Hold up, what this means varies by state: Illinois law says that second-degree still requires an intent to kill [0], and I think the prosecution may have a hard time proving beyond reasonable doubt that the driver intended to turn the victim into road-splatter.
In contrast, the next step down of (attempted?) "Involuntary Manslaughter and Reckless Homicide" seems much easier to prove, and explicitly draws in a surprising number of vehicle-related details.
[0] https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ILCS/details?MajorTopic=RIG...
A reasonable person would expect severe injury or death from running somebody over, and that is enough to satisfy 'intent.'
"Caaarl!! THAT KILLS PEOPLE!" "How was I supposed to know stabbing him 37 times in the chest would do that?"
It's quite possible, but if you're going to prosecute someone in a court case, you've got to have a lot more than just "it fits the pattern for these assholes."
would you?
I would certainly consider him guilty, if not of exactly that crime.
No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
Possible! Many police officers have gone to jail for murdering people.
Don't worry though, just like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50090246 someone will be along to say "mistakes are inevitable, but we need to enforce immigration law, and this is an acceptable price, though not ideal".
It wasn't even the guy they had a "warrant" for.
> ICE’s Lies About A Man Officer Ran Over Undone By Footage Captured By Nearby CCTV Camera